Fourth Annual BF betleH Tournament

Krahl

Active Attendee

To err is Human...
Thank Qo'noS
I'm a Klingon.

Posts: 89
Gender: male

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #15 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 4:16pm

Just reread my post above and rethought some parts...

OK some only have internet access at School, College, Grandma's etc. Maybe expecting every bout posted is a bit harsh to those. But only to those that really can't post daily. They can always clear that with the Judges for dispensation and anyone the fight can post the bouts, taking into consideration the other player's rights.

And summing up my whole opinion. This year's set up is the best so far. Don't reduce the qualifying period, but alter it as you see fit.

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Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #16 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 4:20pm

All Matches in Phase II are not meant to be posted and detailed out. It's up to the players to pick which ones they can describe/post about. but the Qualifying match really SHOULD be a requirement for all fighters participating. Otherwise, why should those who haven't posted their qualifier and such end up in the top 16 even if their skills are oh so l33t? Although, they're probably there just for the IC fighter's awards nothing else, which is fair enough I suppose...

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Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

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Kurrk Combatant Klingons rule. Posts: 57	Re: Phase 2 thoughts Reply #17 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 4:50pm Two fighters in the final 16 haven't posted once yet all competition...
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KentraDonrav Combatant Trills rule. Posts: 248 Gender:	Re: Phase 2 thoughts Reply #18 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 5:16pm That hardly seems fair since a lot of good posters didn't get to move on.
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K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #19 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 6:26pm

It happens every year. If it makes you feel better, consider them NPCs... that is... some NPCs are top fighters.

Not much we can do. If we post a simple minimum posting req then we will get that many short posts that don't add anything and we have enough content. If we have the judges grade postings and let people move on that way, then you run into some subjective issues. I mean... would ness get to continue on if *I* judged posts?

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K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

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Kurrk Combatant Klingons rule. Posts: 57	Re: Phase 2 thoughts Reply #20 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 6:59pm Judged posts would be the worst ever way... Though if a Judge such as K'Hare points out aspects of a post that are in error I'd hope others would listen. No, post judging for progression is a nightmmare not worth considering.
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Jim Hunter

Active Attendee

Human. Don't mess.

Posts: 110

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #21 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 11:17am

Why not a minimum length rule? You must post X times and your posts must be at least Y words long. For some reason rules like that seem to scare some people, but it's as fair as anything else. If you're lazy, there's no point doing this, and if you honestly don't have the time, then don't sign up. That's why I've never done betleH before - it wouldn't be fair on others if I had K'Hunter entered as a combatant but didn't post because I was working overtime IRL.

I agree that judged posts are a bad idea though. I think that Bob's post was fantastic; the best I've ever seen in BF. K'Hare & Wado think it was rubbish so he 'loses' or whatever. The only way it could possibly work is if I was the sole judge.

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James Hunter
Test Pilot - KDB
"There's a reason Sisko could fight. He was Human."

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Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #22 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 11:28am

Who's gonna be sitting here counting words in a post? really?

and yeah judged posts are a bit .... disconcerning for people. folks want to have fun (hopefully) to be aware that their posts are being judged might turn some away.

However, I don't see why fighters' IC moves and such can't be/shouldn't 'judged' by the judges, but for that the posters obviously have to write something more than "Bob came into the arena, wielding his custom made betleH, having seen this, his opponent quivered in fright and threw his blade away thus letting Bob win" I'm sorry, but a two lined post describing an entire battle in such a way doesn't really tell me much about your character's fighting strategy and moves and interaction with their opponent.

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Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

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Jim Hunter

Active Attendee

Human. Don't mess.

Posts: 110

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #23 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 12:17pm

Quote from Jackie Clawson on Feb 21^st, 2006, 11:28am:

Who's gonna be sitting here counting words in a post? really?

No one with a life, but that still leaves a good few people who could do it.

We wouldn't count words (though MSWord would probably do it quicker than me in any case), but if the minimum is 500 or whatever, and you see Bob's two liner, then you give a judge a shout and they have a word. If he does 480 words, I think most people would be okay with that. 500 would be a guide so each posted fight has a degree of detail.

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James Hunter
Test Pilot - KDB
"There's a reason Sisko could fight. He was Human."

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Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #24 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 12:33pm

500 words is roughly one A4 page. (size 12 font)

Also have to keep in mind that some people can't write lengthy posts...just because I can write 3-4 page posts without much trouble, doesn't mean someone else can do it too without it being a joint post. Some people are better at writing the descriptive stuff than others are, as well. there's a difference of styles and people here. For some 500 would be too much.

It shouldn't be the length that matters, really, it should be the content. if they can project the same meaning in 200 words, then by all means.

it does mean they put more effort into things if people posted at least their qualifying posts with details. (since it's a match against an NPC anyway)

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Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

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Jim Hunter

Active Attendee

Human. Don't mess.

Posts: 110

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #25 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 1:03pm

500 was just a suggestion. It could be 100 if that's preferred, though I don't think I simm directly with anyone who counts one page as a long post. Personally, if it doesn't reach the second page in Word, it's a short post, but that's me.

But if you can't write a decent fight, then what are you doing RPing a fighter? Have a spectator character instead and just respond to what others have written about their bouts - this is also the best way to learn if you're interested in improving your own fighting writing. Hunter's a pilot and not a medic because I can write a fairly believable and (I think) enjoyable post about shooting Cardassians pretty easily. I have a lot more trouble writing about open heart surgery.

You have to work from the assumption that everyone who writes a fighter is confident about their abilities when it comes to writing about fights. And with this assumption, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a decent amount of thought and effort to go into a post, especially if the character is good at fighting and progresses through the tourney.

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James Hunter
Test Pilot - KDB
"There's a reason Sisko could fight. He was Human."

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Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #26 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 1:19pm

Personally I don't count anything as a decent post unless it's at least one page long. And I don't do descirptions that well, but at least I'm trying.

Some see it as a challanging and time consuming thing. writing lengthy posts. they don't want to sit and think about a post and how things will go in a post and how do they link up to other posts before theirs and to something in the future (i.e. plotting.. and I'll be the first to admit I'm not that grand at it, but I do enjoy the challenge of attempting things subplot by subplot)

Some people don't want to work for it, they are not sure why they are role playing (aside the glory and the rank, that is) but that is a whole other subject....then again some just can't be bothered to post much or anything even on a simm.

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Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

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K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Phase 2 thoughts
Reply #27 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 3:09pm

On KDB I encourage short posts when you are doing scenes with a lot of people. But then I have a script that will take a whole thread and make it one long post.

It all depends on the scene and the number of people.

But back to the topic. At the tourney we can't judge peoples posts as part of the combat part of the tourney. Too many styles and different standards. Someone might be the best poster on one simm and not work well on my simm at all. I remember a gorn who posted going into a bar at KDB and using a replicator. Totally out of character for KDB. Some simms have more freedom for the players, some are run like a table top game. And If we set minimums some people will post just that. The role playing awards are for people's content contributions.

The combat part of the tourney is just one aspect. Next year Hunter and Clawson will do better because now you have a motiviation in character to improve their combat skill. Not being a fighter doesn't stop you from participating. You can still post and comment. You can still challenge each other in the sparring room. And I don't mean the web page. I mean in character, in the bar late night, post doing a challenge and write up some of the combat, for fun, and then use the program to decide the final winner. Or use the program and then rewrite it in a bar scene.

Remember, flim and flam said they would accept wagers on matches in the sparring room if both fighters agreed to the match and then posted it.

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K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

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Jackie Clawson Combatant Kitty's Killer Kitty! Posts: 589 Gender:	Re: Phase 2 thoughts Reply #28 - Feb 21^st, 2006, 3:20pm Scenes with a lot of people are a whole different thing... I think me and Hunter were talking more about the posts such as the qualifier post where it's just one player posting something.
Back to top	Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson Commanding Officer USS Horizon - A Task Force CO Task Force 58 ---------- USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47 IP Logged

KVok Combatant Sanity is for the weak of mind. Posts: 166	Re: Phase 2 thoughts Reply #29 - Feb 22^nd, 2006, 12:48am I think that there needs to be some sort of qualification for the final 16, even if it is just a crappy two line qualifying match. I'm going up against Wolfe and I'm worried that since he hasn't posted with anything since the first day, is he going to do a required joint post with me?
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