Fourth Annual BF betleH Tournament - Medical attention at the tourney

K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Medical attention at the tourney
Feb 19^th, 2006, 4:48am

This tourney is supposed to honor Klingon tradition. Something just struck me that I never thought of before. It is simply too late to change now and I wouldn't anyway, since this tourney has started.

But, what do people think about the more fragile species getting healing during the tourney? You wouldn't expect the Klingons too.. or at least, not more than folk medicine.

In the future, should anything but simple medicine be allowed at the tourney? Should be be disqualified from the tourney if you get a dermal regeneration or other technological aid?

Or, does it say something that all the Klingons (the honorable ones anyway) refuse healing while the humans are doping up and getting other refreshing boosts?

Back to top

K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

IP Logged

Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #1 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 5:01am

Actually.. this brings up another point of sorts.. when Klingons fight, they fight in their armour, whilst humans et all usually fight in their uniforms. Which means that hitting and injuring humans and etc is much easier than hurting Klingons because their armor protects them. So the Klingons have an extra edge there, which isn't *too* fair to the other folks who wear Starfleet uniforms whilst fighting...

So... next year.. maybe everyone oughta wear the Klingon uniforms/armour if they are fighting with the betleH, else, the weaker species oughta be allowed to get some sort of healing (at least a temporary patch up job, nowhere near a 100% health though) but say, if you break someone's ribs in round 2, how are they supposed to fight in round 3? Cuts and bruises and scratches is one thing, it's no biggie , but if the cut is deep then that's another story...or if you break someone's foot/hand/etc.... perhaps the battle script of yours can also include types of injuries with each hit? (say whenever someone takes damage, the script specified what kind, ranging from just a bruise/hit to a cut/deeper injury) didn't we have someone get a betleH stuck in their shoulder or something? How would this guy keep fighting and win anything if they can't at least get some temporary medical attention.

Have to keep in mind that Phase II takes place in one day, that's a lot of matches and fighting, and not everyone has the stamina to keep going after they've been injured over and over again. (in realistic terms) Plus, since this takes place on a Federation base usually, I doubt the feds want anyone dying from injuries gained at the tournament. So a medical team or two at least should be standing by to take care of the more extreme cases and at least patch the fighter up so they can at least fight somehow during the next match.

Back to top

Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

IP Logged

K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #2 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 5:05am

You remember the episode where Worf is taken prisoner and fights match after match with the Jem'hadar? I think he got a day of rest between each, but that was part of the challenge. And he was fighting to the death.

The armor thing is a good point. But on the other hand, it is heavy. So the ones in armor should get more tired, but less hurt.

Something to think about though.

Back to top

K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

IP Logged

Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #3 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 5:25am

Day of rest, is more than an hour of rest Wink

that's why in the olympics, folks use steroids and such, otherwise they'd drop dead somewhere in the middle of the competition and that's that. (not saying you let us use that kinda thing... on the contrary, I'm just saying that humans have a lesser stamina for battles like that than Klingons would... )

The armor thing, maybe a choice to some folks? those more skilled with the betleH might want to wear the armor (say those with a 7+ or whatever...) whilst those who are a 2 or a 3, wouldn't really wear it anyway. the more they get tired the more frequent their breaks get, which is okay (it's generated by the code anyways...) but they wouldn't get hurt so much.

Back to top

Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

IP Logged

Jim Hunter

Active Attendee

Human. Don't mess.

Posts: 110

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #4 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 12:23pm

I think I've mentioned a dermal regenerator, simply because it was the first/best 24th century solution that came to mind for a cut. I think, at least so far as Humans are concerned that some sort of treatment is a necessity, even if it has to be self-administered on grounds of disqualification or something. There's only so much blood the body can lose without it becoming fairly serious. The trouble with the bet'leH is though, that it's a deadly weapon. If you hit someone the way you're supposed to, you'll likely take a limb, let alone a few drops of blood. That's why a lot of my posted fights with one, both here and elsewhere have involved unorthodox tactics such as diving spears and headbutts, not because I'm trying to be different but because you can only suspend disbelief regarding the amount of cuts and lost blood to a point.

But I don't see it (derm. regenerator) as a fix-all. It seals the outer cut, but if the same area takes another knock or hit, the would is 're-opened' or something along those lines. It's just no fun to go from wounded to fine in one hour. If your characters gets thrashed, then the next fight should reflect that, either beause they're overly tired, or don't have full mobility in their right arm.

I've also thought about armour. My line of thought has been based upon what we saw on TV. Because of the budget, the armour wasn't fantastic, and there were still exposed areas such as the arms, calves and necks, so aim for them. I had Hunter doing a Legolas, basically. I also had him fight in something akin to that grey jumpsuit we saw Tuvok wear whilst training. It doesn't make sense to me that Fleeters would fight in their duty uniform, unless constrained by a show's budget.

It'd be interesting in future to consider more bio questions. As DDJ says, you could choose to wear armour or not. If you do, +2 defence, but -2 speed. People would have to make choices that fit their fighter's stats. Hunter might have 7 defence, but only 4 speed, so the armour may not be the best choice for him. I'm not sure it'd be a good idea and wouldn't just detract from the enjoyment, but it's an option.

Back to top

James Hunter
Test Pilot - KDB
"There's a reason Sisko could fight. He was Human."

IP Logged

toreQ

Combatant

If the Wise are
fools, I'm a Drunk
Fool...

Posts: 175

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #5 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 1:58pm

Medical Care wise, I don't how much have seen to what I have writen, but think should have an option there. Federation officers should be able to get their kind of medical care. Klingons theirs. Humans are not built like Klingons, and physicaly it would not be a fair fight if the Human is weakened because he don't have the redundencies of a Klingon. Would it be honorable for a Klingon to take advantage of that. You would have more Klingons winning jusr because they can handle wounds better.

Also, I agree in way to the 7 day fight problem. There's only so much stamina even for a Klingon, and to go threw 7 fights with-out injury would be unrealistic, expecialy with that type of weapon (Good point by Hunter). Also with only an hour between each match, having a character completely healed between, even with federation technology would also be unrealistic. Fighters would be getting tired as the rounds go on as well. More mistakes made by each fighter. Older fighters would be wearing down quicker, as would wounded.

Having Phase 2 a different day is good though. Allows the fighters to recoperate, rest from a long day of fighting. They can get better care as well if want it (Most likely federation ones there).

Armor wise, that should be an option even now. If a Human or federation officer went and replicated or bought (look ferengi.. an idea!) armor to wear in match, would we stop them from wearing it? Same time if some honor bound Klingon decided to remove his to make things even (though people might think he crazy, for a Klingon), would someone stop them? Thats seems to be a matter of choice. The up point of armor is some protection, the down point is armor can restrict movements and be heavy. Maybe someone can come up with an idea for some type of lighter weight armor for the Fedies?

Thoughts?

Back to top

toreQ, House of Qortlh
ne'
weHwI' XO

Bio

IP Logged

K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #6 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 2:16pm

One Klingon view would be we fight in our uniform. If you are on a mission and get attacked by surprise, would you take the time to chance out of your jammies?

Having some options that affect combat (wear armor or not) is something I have considered adding. There has been a request to add a kind of agressiveness in the fight... go for quick win or try to tire him out or such. There are lots of bits of complexity I can add.

Back to top

K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

IP Logged

Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #7 - Feb 19^th, 2006, 11:18pm

Can't you have the matches start out 'easier' relatively speaking, then add the extra elements match by match, thus making it harder with each match for folks to 'win' Of course gotta keep in mind that you don't want to make things TOO difficult otherwise it'll kill the fun. The quick win might be added as another 1 in 1000000 chances. Course knowing my luck I'll land on the darn
thing next year Tongue

but hey..

Back to top

Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

IP Logged

K`Hare totlh YaBB Administrator betleH Judges Get your own keg! Posts: 560	Re: Medical attention at the tourney Reply #8 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 12:17am How do I have the matches start out easier? I don't know what that means.
Back to top	K'Hare totlh CO Klach D'kel Brakt TFCO TF86 Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney IP Logged

Jackie Clawson Combatant Kitty's Killer Kitty! Posts: 589 Gender:	Re: Medical attention at the tourney Reply #9 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 1:43am i.e. without any 'addons' so to speak
Back to top	Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson Commanding Officer USS Horizon - A Task Force CO Task Force 58 ---------- USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47 IP Logged

KentraDonrav

Combatant

Trills rule.

Posts: 248
Gender: female

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #10 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 2:09am

One thing you might consider adding, though if it's too complex it's good how it is too, is speed and strength and experience and other modifiers like that. When filling out my bio it was hard to pick a bet'leth skill level because skill-wise Kentra is quite good and she has experience but she's also quite weak compared to Klingons so I modified it downward from where I would have picked based only on skill.

If instead of just having one set level, picking whether you're as good as Alexander or Worf,and instead had a few categories that added up to an overall level, that might be an idea.

Back to top

Lieutenant Kentra Donrav
Chief Communications Officer
USS Laffey

IP Logged

Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #11 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 2:15am

Yeah, that's another point actually.. some species are more 'agile' than others and thus are less likely to get hit 80-90% of the time, wheras others are less agile and will get hit more often, for instance. Same with speed and strength, characters might wear down sooner if they are not as strong with the betleH than other characters. You can't swing that thing forever and not get tired out. Although you have the 'worn down' element in the battle script now, I'm curious how it works, where it gets the data from and whether it's based on anything in the BIO, if so what..?

Back to top

Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

IP Logged

K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #12 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 3:21am

Right now the only allowance for strength is normal, half vulcan, or full vulcan. I was working on more options there but time ran out. I had to stablize the code before the tourney.

Next year you might see: fragile, sub-human, human, half-klingon, klingon, half vulcan, vulcan, hirogen

as options. But then, are we sure klingons are stronger than humans?

You as asking about agility... how do I measure that? Show me a canon source that deals with that or even with the strength thing.

Things like reach (based on height) or something with weight (sumos are big for a reason) I could code from biometrics, but how can I code stamina or agility? This isn't a point based RPG where everyone is balanced. Do you think the points used to make K'Hare, Ta'pez, K'rahl or Rolf are equal to that to make ness?

If T'shir wants to say he is a good as Worf how do I decide how that relates to Clawson's skill or ta'pez's? The best I can do is put a number out there and trust people to be honest. In my simm, many of the characters at the tourney would not be allowed. I am sure some would not have allowed K'Hare and most would not allow Ing. Winning in the tourney is very much related to the skill you give yourself and some random luck. My combat app is my best attempt to capture the idea that a pimply ensign shouldn't beat Wolfe, or if he does, its a rare thing.

The problem is hard. That's what makes it interesting.

Now, if you want to suggest something with agility by giving me a species list and how you think it would affect combat, up and down the scale, please do, and I will try to incorporate it. All these things you suggest I have thought of abstractly and I have implemented the ones that were easy or most pressing.

And back to the previous question of jackie's... I still don't get it. What addons? How are you suggesting early matches be different than the later ones?

Back to top

K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

IP Logged

satian Combatant Satian Posts: 152 Gender:	Re: Medical attention at the tourney Reply #13 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 3:27am fatuge with a klingon becouse of his battle armmor dosent make sence to me, they wear it from childhood and by the time they would enter the turniments it would be as a second skin and they wouldnt even notice it, just food for thought
Back to top	IP Logged

Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Medical attention at the tourney
Reply #14 - Feb 20^th, 2006, 9:20am

Okay, why Vulcan, half-Vulcan and etc and not other species? and there aren't that many hirogen in BF last I checked... then we might have a few ExBorg folk saying they're stronger because of all the metal bits and pieces they have...

As for canon sources for agility and the like... aren't there any Trek D20 games and handbooks (i'm pretty sure there was a TOS one somewhere, ) but obviously this isn't easy to measure. and you can onlyhope people will be honest with those like they are with their betleH skills.

Also how does the field of expertiese a character belongs to affects the fighting? a human/non Klingon Doctor might not have the right head for tactical moves and strategizing during a match for instance (not in the same way a marine, security officer or a Klingon would anyway)

As for addons bit, to be honest I don't recall now what my point was with that last night....but for earlier matches to be different, maybe you can have something like first strike/first blood types in there as well not just disarm types. and maybe add on a few more of different types of battles you can have. (I'm not sure you can have more than the ones already there, though...)

However, I think Armor is something that needs to be added next year for most experienced fighters, if not all...since this IS a tournament whichis trying to follow Klingon tradition to a degree. if they're fighting with Klingon weapons, might as well wear Klingon armor.

Back to top

Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

IP Logged