Fourth Annual BF betleH Tournament - Posting and a small rant

Combatant

For the Honor of
Task Force 58

Posts: 70
Gender: male

Posting and a small rant
Feb 16^th, 2006, 2:53pm

Alright, I was all set ready to post my next match with Tucker and I noticed that he just ups and makes it a very, VERY, short match. In my first two matches, I at least had the chance to post my part of the match. This time around i'm not even going to get a chance to do that.

I know I was supposed to loose the match, fine I accept that. What I'm angry about is that I didn't get a chance to post how I was going to loose the match. Heck I'm still posting my second match because I like all my matches to be fun and challenging. Something where both participants can take part.

My question to the Admin and judges is how can both participants have fun if one person takes it upon himself to end the match and not give the other person a chance to chime in on their thoughts during the match?

As it stands right now, I'm so not having as much fun doing this like I thought I would be.

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Rear Admiral
Rolf Emerson
Commanding Officer
Deep Space Seven - http://www.deepspaceseven.org
Task Force Executive Officer Task Force 58
http://www.tf58.bravofleet.com/template.php?pageref=index
Chief Recruitment Officer
Bravofleet

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Jackie Clawson

Combatant
Kitty's

Killer Kitty!

Posts: 589
Gender: female

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #1 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 4:36pm

You can always backpost stuff. it's part of being able to figure out a way around any situation people put you in. Not everyone thinks on the same wavelength as you do, in a community like that you have to account for that and be prepared to see things like this. That's why sometimes it's best to contact the other party for a JP or to discuss things before the results of the match are posted. Otherwise, this is what ends up happening.

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Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson
Commanding Officer
USS Horizon - A
Task Force CO
Task Force 58
----------
USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk
Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com
Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47

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Kurrk

Combatant

Klingons rule.

Posts: 57

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #2 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 4:52pm

Common etiquette in this kind of situation though is that the Winner starts and the loser finishes.

Whether it is done in one JP prepared off list, in a post each, or in many posts is up to the players.

Frankly if the Winners in my fights don't post I will post the whole thing. If they fought Very Dirty I will post it that way.

However I'll do a PM first - Done just that already on one and working out a conclusion to how to post.

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KentraDonrav Combatant Trills rule. Posts: 248 Gender:	Re: Posting and a small rant Reply #3 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 5:14pm If you're upset by how it happened maybe try to talk to the other player off list, and thus avoid any public controversy? I'd hope that if someone was upset with something I did they'd do that first.
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satian Combatant Satian Posts: 152 Gender:	Re: Posting and a small rant Reply #4 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 5:53pm it is my understanding at this point we are posting reactions and our own perseption of how the match went. i have no problem with the back and forth thing eather but we have atleast 12-24 hrs in advance to get hold of your opp and figer out how to do it.
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K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #5 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 6:11pm

I like the general idea that the loser has more control over the match. Of course that can lead to people losing in an annoying way to save face but this is all part of simming and role playing.

When I first suggested the rule about the loser posting the bulk of the match we did the single elimination thing. Basically that meant that every fighter, but the final winner 'owned' one match. This year it is different because we are doing this phase II thing.

All I can say is the following, which is not a betleH rule but is a simming and BF rule. DO NOT POST ACTIONS FOR OTHER CHARACTERS.

Because PhaseII is one fight a day for a a week, the judges don't EXPECT a written out match. We wont discourage it but we don't expect it. We know its work. Some people... (let's pick on Hunter) like Hunter know they wont make it to round 16 (his is sloughing I am sure) so they might be more motivated to post full matches. The judges want to see good qualifying matches for role playing points and written out matches in the round of 16.

Really, the two fighters should work together and post something both agree on. That's part of simming. So if you are unhappy with his post then PM him and work it out. Think of this as a giant simm... the only one bigger than DS7 and Taylor is the CO. You and another player have a conflict about a scene. How should you work it out?

Talk to him, work out an agreeable JP.

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K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

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Wado

betleH Judges

Klingons rule.

Posts: 74
Gender: male

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #6 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 6:11pm

The Bat'leth Competition is obviously a very big Joint Mission. With any JM there is bound to be problems that arise. Even though we are the same fleet there are difference in posting styles from one ship to the next. The pace of posting from one ship to the next can also be different. People will go about how they are used to doing things and sometimes that doesn't match up with others.

If you have a match with another player, effort should be made to do a JP between the two of you some how. You can do this via IMs, PMs, e-mails or just taging each other back and forth. An effort by both sides should be made to try and come up with a compromise on the end post no matter who "won" the match.

Now I know the question can come up of "How long do I need to wait?" I say if you don't get a response right away on an e-mail or pm, post the start of a match. If you oponent doesn't respond in a day or two, finish the match but be realistic about it. Frankly, I don't care if it was your qualifying match against an NPC or the championship round. No one should be winning a match "easily". The IC level of competition is higher then that. And if you prefer to default to super hero syndrome then so be it. Send me a PM of how great you are, we can give you an "award" and get beck to what this competition is really about. Roleplaying.

Because with all do respect to Tapez and K'Tar. In my eyes they were not the ones who "won" the previous competition. The did get the first place trophies, but the winners were K'hare, Q'olavrah and Ing. The players who took home the Roleplaying award. And I can tell you that all of tham had faced similar problems. Players who didn't respond, responded too quickly, or gave responses that were like nothing they had faced on their own sims. But they worked with what was dished out and did what they could.

Where am I going with this? Good question I think I started to rant a little myself. Anyways morale of the story. Work with each on this Joint Mission we have. Realize that some people here have been at this all 4 years and others are joining us for the first time. So things may not go as you plan but work with what happens and always remember rule # 1. Have fun.

If anyone has comments or complaints feel free to e-mail me or pm me.

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Rear Admiral Wade Duerkes
Commanding Officer, USS Saturn
Task Force Commanding Officer, Task Force 9
JAG Officer, Bravofleet
Head Judge, Bravofleet Bat'leth Competition

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K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #7 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 6:36pm

What Wade said.

Though I would like to add one thing. Now I NEVER said it... but in year one the combats were mostly random. There was no consideration of rank or history, or rather, there was but it was not as significant as the current method. Each year we try to improve the combat system so that it take account of more of the character history to give advantages to those who have trained with the weapon or have more experience. It wouldn't make much sense for K'Hare, a Klingon CO and betleH teacher to get beat by a pimplefaced Ensign who hasn't used the weapon much, but I think that's what happened in year one.

All I can say is each year we try to make it better, more realistic. It isn't to make the Klingons win, its to make the result feel a little better, more realistic, to add to the feel of the tourney. You expect ta'pez, a Klingon CO with high rank to do well in the tourney. So the goal isn't just to win, its to have a good role playing experence.

The reason I mention all that is that again, in year one, the results were more random. Anyone could have one. ta'pez did. He put his character out there, with little advantage to win and he did. Both Q'ol and K'Hare competed and got eliminated quickly. You have to give ta'pez a nod for taking the risk and winning in year one.

And I never said that.

The combat award wins you bragging rights. If you have a high ranking combat character it makes sense that you do well in the combats. But the tourney is what you make of it. Have fun and try to remember everyone else is having fun. The judges are not just the 'big 3'. Everyone here is reading and picking favorite character, favorite players and their writing to pay attention too. I already got the best award I could ask for in year one and that was meeting a few key people. I wouldn't be in BF now if not for that.

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K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
TFCO TF86
Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

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toreQ

Combatant

If the Wise are
fools, I'm a Drunk
Fool...

Posts: 175

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #8 - Feb 16^th, 2006, 6:43pm

Rolf, not sure you are aware, but this is what I have been bugging you about when comes to the Dinner Thread... but anyways. I have noticed that there seems to be a lot of people who failed to put any contact info where can be easily found. For them it reduces the only Message delivery available as PM which they may not even be checking and have to go to the board to see.

Also, we seem to be missing some combatants. My 2nd Round Oponent I haven't seen a single post from and I can't find his contact info.

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toreQ, House of Qortlh
ne'
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Jackie Clawson Combatant Kitty's Killer Kitty! Posts: 589 Gender:	Re: Posting and a small rant Reply #9 - Feb 17^th, 2006, 2:16am Which brings me to query this: Should those who don't post anything on the forums, but signed up to fight be disqualified somehow? Since this IS about the writing, rather than the fighting. What if one of those who doesn't write anything makes it to the final 16?
Back to top	Rear Admiral Jackie Clawson Commanding Officer USS Horizon - A Task Force CO Task Force 58 ---------- USS Horizon: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk Task Force 58: http://tf58.bravofleet.com Biography: http://horizon.taylord1.co.uk/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=47 IP Logged

K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator
betleH Judges

Get your own keg!

Posts: 560

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #10 - Feb 17^th, 2006, 4:07am

It is a problem we think about each year. Some people might be waiting for the 16 to really start posting. Some might complain about the amount of posting. I wonder how many people are reading everything posted?

So yeah, some people should post most. Who knows why they didn't? Maybe next year I will do something sneaky about this. (:} But I don't want to make up rules now since this tourney started.

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K'Hare totlh
CO Klach D'kel Brakt
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Forum admin for BFKC and betleH tourney

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Jim Hunter

Active Attendee

Human. Don't mess.

Posts: 110

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #11 - Feb 17^th, 2006, 2:42pm

Quote from K`Hare totlh on Feb 16^th, 2006, 6:11pm:

Because PhaseII is one fight a day for a a week, the judges don't EXPECT a written out match. We wont discourage it but we don't expect it. We know its work. Some people... (let's pick on Hunter) like Hunter know they wont make it to round 16 (his is sloughing I am sure) so they might be more motivated to post full matches. The judges want to see good qualifying matches for role playing points and written out matches in the round of 16.

I don't get the reference. Obviously, if I can't post in the next phase, I might want to post more now, but sloughing? Callin' me a snake, Klingon?

Regarding posting of matches, Hunter lost his first three but since I got there first, I posted first, often taking my cue from the opening rounds of the computer combat. Ideally, the other fighter would respond, and we'd both get a few posts in before finishing the match and then having a small after-fight coversation/handshake/fight. With the first match, I didn't get a response so finished it off myself, and with the second, K'Vok has responded so it's a two way thing.

I think a strict interpretation of "don't post for others" will do little but hinder the development of threads. Think about it,

"Hunter swung his blade to the left, where it cut lightly into the abdomen of Bob."

The natural reaction would be for Bob to recoil at least slightly, but it could be aruged that it just incenses him, causing him to couter-attack strongly. I think, as with most rules, this should be interpreted with a degree of common sense. In the above, it would have been okay for me to write about Bob recoiling and Hunter following up, but not to have Bob pull a Daq'tagh and swing back at Hunter, thus cheating. If Bob had a problem with me writing something, he could contact me via PM and we'd work it out between us. Posts do have an edit button after all.

If Bob didn't respond in any way, I'd finish it off taking my cue from the combat details, and Bob's bio. If he's an inexperienced Vulcan fighter, I'll try and reflect that in how he wins/loses.

If an opponent were to post first and wrap the match up in one post, I wouldn't be happy, but I'd try and work Hunter's actions in around it 90% of the time, only neglecting to if the manner of fighting on his part was grossly out of character. That's part of the challenge of simming.

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James Hunter
Test Pilot - KDB
"There's a reason Sisko could fight. He was Human."

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Ta`pez

Combatant

Glorious victories
are ahead of us

Posts: 397
Gender: male

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #12 - Feb 17^th, 2006, 8:26pm

Quote from Wado on Feb 16^th, 2006, 6:11pm:

Because with all do respect to Tapez and K'Tar. In my eyes they were not the ones who "won" the previous competition. The did get the first place trophies, but the winners were K'hare, Q'olavrah and Ing. The players who took home the Roleplaying award.

This is a matter of debate - who won? The egotistical thing to say would be I did and the above mentioned three got the looser with a good story ribbon. However... that is not the case and it would a horribly misguieded view - anybody who has an issue with loosing and not winning has a missed the goal of this tournament.

After the second tournament I considered retiring Ta'pez from the Tournament as a fighter because there was very little to gain from participating further as that character in a fighter form. The awards to be won where not the awards I could win as a fighter.

The role player awards are just that - awards of recognition for the players who seemed to have a great story. Whose story better I will not judge - certainly both K'hare and Qol and Ing deserved the regonition. Their stories were excellent (though I would have given the award to K'Hare in b3 and not in b1 - just because of the mutt revelation - that by far outstripped anything ing had done that year. but k'hare was judge an ineligible for that year - the same reason i regret not having to face him)

However the focus of the tournament is not to win any trophy or award - those are just bragging rights.

What I believe I share with K'Hare, Q'ol, K'rahl and the other klingons is an interesting and amazing story to be told by and for your characters. The finale of b2 is an excellent example of this - the story would have been just as good if I had lost - though the roles might have been slightly different.

The mission of this tournament is for us to explore your characters, make them grow, have an interesting story.

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Ta'pez 'ech
TF2X0 TF44

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Taylor

YaBB Administrator
Host CO
Combatant
Serenity Crew

Dude! Where's my
starship?!

Posts: 236
Gender: male

Re: Posting and a small rant
Reply #13 - Feb 18^th, 2006, 8:46am

Ta'pez hit it right on the head there, this year I've done my best to get people to come and join up.

I think it's fair to say Alex (Cap'n Cash) and Jess (RAdm Clawson) have gotten what I was trying to say this year (heh, the character development started before the Competition, Catnapped :-D)

I'd prefer to come here and loose every match, it does help me flesh out Taylor as a character, same with JJ actually. This competition has given me a chance to start showing what I'd planned to show from the start with the character.

Where else in BF could I get this kind of chance?

I told Alex betleH is the highlight of my year in Bravo Fleet, and thats the truth. I think it's kept me around during those dark moments we all have, the ones were we want to quit, where we wonder why we do this. betleH is part of the reason (There are others, but I think only Ed gets the why in my head Wink

)

I'm not actually aiming for the Role Play award while I'm here, I don't think I ever will. Hats off to K'Hare, Tappy, Qol and everyone else who comes here with great stories each year - I'm just here to advance my characters a bit, I think in 36 hours IC this year I've done that a fair bit already.

Personnally I just want to have fun, the IM's from folks saying they enjoy what has been written is just icing on the cake.

My personal view is that anyone who comes to betleH should do it for their own reasons, winning is nice, the role play award is nice too - but what you've come for is your character and the interaction with others.

The real winners of betleH are those who go meet new friends, enjoy themselves and evolve thier characters Wink

~Dan

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Taylor
Intel Specialist
Serenity Base
[Bio]
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Ta`pez Combatant Glorious victories are ahead of us Posts: 397 Gender:	Re: Posting and a small rant Reply #14 - Feb 18^th, 2006, 3:06pm Quote from Taylor on Feb 18^th, 2006, 8:46am: The real winners of betleH are those who go meet new friends, enjoy themselves and evolve thier characters enemies not friends....havent ya learned anything...
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